Dry-burning metal coils: is it a good thing?

If there is one thing I know it's that the only research I trust comes from this guy.

Increased risk is probably minimal and still better than analogues.

Atm I doubt I will change anything as 35 years of smoking did a lot more damage than this is most likely to cause I feel. Just my opinion.

But we DO all need to be made aware of these issues so we can make our own informed choice. The over reaction mentioned is what we don't need from the community in general.

 

I was reading through the big thread at ECF titled, "The end of microcoils?" and it has me less concerned about the safety of dry burning, at least in moderation. In that thread there are a couple of metallurgists who point out that Dr F. is not an expert in metals. Here are some statements from these two posters below. I should probably cite them but had been copying without referring to post # etc. Sorry.

- "None of the elements in Kanthal A1 have a significant vapor pressure at the temperatures a coil reaches during vaping. The thin aluminum oxide scale that forms on heating is very effective at protecting the coil from further oxidation, ionic diffusion and chemical leaching. Torturing a coil with extended white-hot burns will inevitably consume some of the aluminum and chromium in the alloy, and change the nature of the surface. Don't do it. But lightly oxidizing your Kanthal coil is probably a good idea. It serves to help seal the surface of the coil, trapping and protecting the iron, aluminum and chromium beneath it.

Absolutely, research is needed to determine the safest alloys for vape coils and their proper care and feeding. But common sense dictates, at least to me, that a properly oxidized Kanthal coil is probably safer than an unoxidized one."

- "BUT as a (former) metallurgist I do know about metals and I have to say that all what was said about metals is not worth any attention. It was all wrong. It was even said "you are basically destroying the bonds between the metal molecules", which is just funny for a metallurgist: metals do not have molecules and heating does not destroy bonds. For kanthal heating is very useful thing. You should dry burn your kanthal coils to make them healthier. First, you remove contaminations - no solvent can remove them as good as dry burning. Second, you form good protective layer on a wire.
Just an example when specialist is trying to discuss things in which he is not a specialist.
Please, dry burn your kanthal coils. Please, do not overheat them while vaping (including legs)."

- "The higher the temperature (in the presence of oxygen), the higher the rate of oxide (scale) formation. Migration of the alloying elements that want to form oxides to the surface will also be highest at the higher temperatures. If the coil is slow cooled, it is more likely that the oxide will stay bonded to the surface without spalling off. Dunking a hot coil in water shocks the coil, and the oxide spalls off, mostly due to differences in thermal expansion. Hope this helps.
if the oxide film on your coils spalls off, it could end up anywhere: stuck to you coil or wick, glued in the goo inside your atty, or in your lungs. That still doesn't make it magically turn into the nanoparticles everyone freaks out about, but it doesn't just go away - it has to go somewhere."

- "The "glow" you should be looking for is the first visibly detectable shade of red. Not orange or yellow or god-forbid white - just barely red. Anything else is way too hot."
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So, I think I will still liightly pulse coils sometimes. I do want to learn more and will be tracking the ECF thread. One thing that was repeated a couple times is that the real bad thing to do would be to inhale the fumes off of a red-glowing coil as that would be the situation where you would have more unhealthy levels of metals present.

 

I am with TALEN,Each to there own,DR FARSALINOS Was asked a question,relevant to vaping his reply,has been taken and

completly exaggerated, creating a fear factor too. which is beyond normal comprehension.lol

 

@scartchy from these two metralurgist, one is saying not to dry burn the coil while the other one is advising to do so, did I understood correctly ?

Nevertheless, thanks for the share. Funny to read that metal has no molecules when it was the argument of Dr.F ^^

 

They both advocated dry burns but one cautioned against "white-hot" type of burning. Other recommendations were to avoid longer-duration dry burning.

Yeah, besides Dr. F in his statements, there were a few other people in the thread talking about molecular bonds would be breaking apart at high heat. These metallurgists and others quickly corrected them.

I will stick to color red whenever I dry burn. Short duration pulses.

 

I Know it was 700...I doubt seriously I am hitting 700 C in 3 short pulses. That chart doesn't work...it's for steel and steel is a different animal

 

Yes I read after that's for steel. At 700+ C I would guess it could be in the range of at least red to orange with kanthal. Not metal but I think a ciggie burns at about 700 C. Anyway, outside of glowing that orange to white for any length of time or inhaling off the coil when you do glow it, apparently not that big of a concern according to the metallurgy guys. Will try to not exceed red color so will dial down my power when pulsing


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I know mine hits orange and I let go of the button...do this a few times and brush the coil down...wondering about the water method. Would pulsing and then putting under the water temper the metal making it stronger? I think we are all okay as long as we aren't smoking cigs or metal...but the whole metal debate just got a bit more interesting and I have a feeling it will get even more interesting in the months to come.

 

IThink if people are going to worry about it, (how are you going to vape )the basics of vaping is to use an element that heats up
and fires your liquid,some people have been vaping for years,and make accolades about vaping how good there health is etc,etc
come on folks!get real,having come from another generation,as a child i would huddle over a kanthal type element to keep warm
have i been afflicted,bye the fumes emitting from the kanthal,I think not.or if i had I am not aware of it.

 

For me after reading all this Im going to avoid hot burning and water cooling which rules out cleaning coils as that requires flames and water. Ive just rebuilt 2 coils, they took me about 3mins each, I heated to a mild glow at 7 watts to shape the coils and oxidise them. When they gunk up ill replace them and do the same.

 

definitely a good thing increases the life of your coils.

 

Tonight I did a complete coil rebuild on one of my KFV4 clones using brief pulses at 7 W and was pleased with the control I had in the glow of the coil for making some quick adjustments. Usually was a deep red in color at its peak (similar to 1200C and 1300C in the chart here but a couple extremely brief times it was edging to 1400C chart color). 28 ga, 2.5 mm id, 6-wraps contact coil @ 1.2 ohm (was hoping for 1.1 ohm). I'll probably continue doing a mix of spaced and contact coils and will use this method for prepping them.

As a side note, I put in some Watson's organic this time around and it's wicking better than I expected it would with GLV's Deadly Sin (VG). Really happy about that.

 

While I don't trust that everything Dr. F says is correct, I do trust that he has the correct intentions, which is very important.

I don't know the details as I'm not good at this stuff myself, but I do know the Dr worked with at least one other person in this report so that should be taken into consideration.


Again though, he didn't give ANY specificity as to how bad this is, just that it can be a potential area to make picking up some toxicity an issue. If compared to an analog I think we all know which is better. So this may be a tiny risk that wouldn't come close to taking a ride on a motorbike in Bangkok traffic. Or it could be terrible, who knows....

As @Longtail1 said, the information is ours, and now we can decide, even if the information at this point is still extremely vague and unknown, at least we're in the loop. Unlike with how big tobacco dealt with dangers, we are being told about the possible risks, even unknown, I think that's a really good thing.

 

I haven't tried boiling them but I did try scrubbing one with a soapy toothbrush, it worked quite well but didn't remove everything so I imagine boiling or a combination of both would be even better.
I still dry burn though but have started to use slightly spaced coils more.