I have destroyed 3 Fasttech Kayfuns in the past 2 weeks

The original one no, you are right. But the V2 does. Big is selling it.


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This is kind of the point I'm making. There is no such thing as "surgical grade stainless steel", there is a numbered grade. From Wikipedia:

I've only seen 316 and 304 SS being used for atomizers. Here's the descriptions:

If they're the most common types of Stainless Steel, it would stand to reason that they would be the cheapest. These alloys are found in authentic atomizers and clones alike. Now I shouldn't have said "acidic", it was a slip on my part (I changed the word earlier in the post). Its possible that there is an electrolytic reaction taking place, namely galvanic corrosion of the steel.

Salt is commonly used in juices, and as I said before I noticed corrosion of the Kanthal when I was using saline as a juice additive. The threads of a center post, particularly because they are being used as an electrode, would be particularly susceptible to this type of corrosion.

 

oops i meant the $5 replacement base doesnt have a fill hole, the $8 one does indeed.

 

Saline is not present in most juices and there is a great reason for that which you already mentioned, kanthal corrosion. The people that do add saline are trying to up the fruit and bakery flavors and it's been proven time and again over the years that it just doesn't work. Even on the high end the saline content is minimal.

The whole point being that the vast majority of clones are not using such stainless steels but lesser quality metals that are not the standard stainless steels we have been accustomed to and they have been caught doing so too many times.

 

This made me curious. I took out the ol' multimeter and decided to do some tests. I had conductivity on every single one of my store-bought juices as well as the ones I made myself, saline added or not. I then tested pure PG and VG, no conductivity. This means the flavoring is introducing free ions, since its food flavoring that generally means salts. Free ions mean electrolytic solution, electrolytic solution + DC current + electrodes = electrolysis. Sure, it may not be fast, but it would explain the deterioration of Sub's center pin.

I've got to disagree with this. Stainless steel is pretty common, easily identifiable (it doesn't easily rust), and cheap. If it wasn't stainless steel it would readily rust when you washed it (obviously omitting aluminum and chromed brass, they're pretty easy to spot anyway). Why would they go out of their way to find a less common type of stainless steel, whatever it is would be harder to come by and more expensive? They aren't producing the metal themselves, they just buy billets and throw them in a CNC machine. What cheaper alloy do you suppose they are using that would cause this?

 

You can disagree all you like...there have been ample cases of bad metals and completely wrong metals used. One manufacturer not long ago was selling chrome plated brass clones as SS.

Exactly how do you think they are producing these marvels and selling them for so cheap? If the cost to us is $20 I can only imagine the wholesale cost is between $5 and $10.

Juice isn't destroying these atomizers...bad quality is.

 

Now you're talking about false advertising, not "bad metals" or "wrong metals" used. Please show me a single case of a "bad metal". Chromed brass is found in plenty of authentic mods and atomizers. Whoever manufactured the product didn't order brass, machine it, then chrome it accidentally thinking it was stainless steel, or even thinking it would pass as stainless steel. They look nothing alike, other than both being a silver color. Some salesman somewhere in the chain either didn't understand the difference or wrongly thought the customer wouldn't realize the difference.

How are they producing these so cheap? Large runs and cheap labor. Non-existent QA/QC. No need for R&D since they're just copying someone else's work. The same way everything is produced cheaply over here.

To think the juice has no effect on the atomizers is crazy, look at how quickly a juice can destroy a plastic tank. Metals break down as well. Every failure can be attributed to a specific cause, and "bad quality" doesn't say anything about why Sub's center posts snapped.

 

Please show me one authentic atomizer made of chromed brass? Brass leaches lead and it's been a huge no no in the e-cig industry since inception.

High grade stainless steel will not break down with the juices we use...Period.

Here some factual photographs for you all skimmed from slowtech's's own forums. All of these atomizers were purchased from slowtech and all are supposed to be 304 stainless steel at a minimum.

Kayfun lite clone, said to be completely SS


Phoenix clone

Tobeco kayfun clone


Kayfun mini clone

Orchid Clone:

 

I had the same issue with a few clones that i bought from different shops in thailand (Clones).

I started seeing A little bit of Rust looking Color on the posts. So after that i just stick with originals or disposals.

I know its expensive but i personally don't want to Vape rust. So i do understand what Talen is getting at.

 

Let me think. Chromed brass. Pretty much all of the Kanger models up until the Aerotank, all of the iClears, the Aspire BDCs, then there's all of the ones from Ovale and Smoktech, I could go on forever. Number-wise, the majority of atomizers contain chromed brass. Funny all the poisonings we've had because of it. Tell me this, how much lead could possibly leech out of your atomizer? You get more lead in your system handling a fishing sinker than you could possibly get even if you ate the damn atomizer. People can't seem to wrap their heads around exposure levels.

Now your photos:

#1 - Rusted screws.
#2 - What looks like some surface rust.
#3 - Rusted screws.
#4 - I have no idea what I'm looking at.
#5 - Surface rust.

Conclusion: In #1 and #3, they didn't use stainless steel screws. This is why FastTech always has that little "minor parts may made by non-SS" disclaimer, and if they didn't put it on there they will usually replace screws for you. Go out and buy the right screws or buy something that has them already, if you buy from FastTech without reading reviews then you get what you paid for. #4 I can't really tell what is going on. #2 and #5 appear to be surface rust. Read this to understand more about surface rust and free iron:
http://www.sperkoengineering.com/html/Rust.pdf

"High grade" stainless steel will rust from water. I've spent 13 years as a firefighter with the majority of the parts on our trucks made from 316 and 304 stainless, it rusts (surface rust). My dog's water bowl is made of 304 stainless, it has rust in it. Leave surgical tools outside on the ground when it rains, they will rust. If its surface rust, clean it off and let it dry. There is no big conspiracy, its not crap metal, you just have to take care your gear. The rust is most likely coming from tool residue when it was machined or iron in the water.

Cheap shit has quality issues. FastTech had to send me a whole new deck for my Squape clone because they anodized the threads, so no conductivity. Something we've seen in a bunch of Nemesis tubes as well. This has nothing to do with cheap or bad metals, everything to do with the manufacturers straight up doing something wrong.

 

None of the iclear atomizers are chromed brass I have all of them and although I don't own any kanger or aspire tanks I would suspect you are 100% wrong about those as well.

You should read up on brass and leaching as it pertains to vaping...there is a shit ton of information on it and it just might open your eyes.

As for the pics...go to slowtech and read up on them...they were all taken within days of receiving the atomizers...not a cleaning issue and not all of them are surface rust.

 

I agree with you Talen on the quality of the fasttech stuff. I have (admittedly more expensive) Kayfuns from HCigar, and I can see the quality is much better than the stuff from Fasttech. There are upgrade kits for the fasttech Kayfuns (look up fatdaddy vapes on Ebay) to correct the cheapo little parts, but when you add the cost of that to the tank, it costs pretty much the same as buying a high quality one from HCigar or EHpro. Either way, when I see the orchid, those posts seem so much easier to work on than the KFL posts. The ES 3.1 posts are very easy to rewire, and I would have loved it if they had incorporated that into the KFL.

 

$3.44 Authentic Innokin iClear 16D BDC Clearomizer - 2.0ml / 2.1ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALChromed Brass + PC

$6.70 Authentic Mini Protank 3 Dual Coil Clearomizer - translucent / 1.5ohm / 1.5ml at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALChromed Brass + Glass

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MATERIALBrass + Glass

$6.51 Authentic Aspire CE5-S Bottom Dual Coil BDC Clearomizer - 1.8ml / 1.8ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALStainless Steel + PC + Chromed Brass

$6.23 Authentic X8 2.5ml Electronic Cigarette Atomizer at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALChromed Brass

$3.95 Authentic T3S Bottom Coil Clearomizer (2.4mL) - smoke black / 1.8ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALChromed Brass + Polycarbonate

$3.95 Authentic T3S Bottom Coil Clearomizer (2.4mL) - translucent / 1.8ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALChromed Brass + Polycarbonate

$15.39 Authentic Protank 3 (V2) Dual Coil Glassomizer (2.5mL) - 2.0ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALChromed Brass + Pyrex Glass

$10.57 Authentic Unitank Mini Bottom Coil Clearomizer (1.3mL) - 1.8 + 2.2 + 2.5ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALChromed Brass + Polycarbonate

$5.46 Authentic eVod 2 Bottom Coil Clearomizer - black / 1.5ml / 1.5ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALChromed Brass + PC

$16.49 Authentic GeniTank Mega Bottom Dual Coil Clearomizer - 3.5ml / 1.8ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALChromed Brass + Glass

$4.43 Authentic SmokTech Aro-II Clearomizer (2.0mL) - 2.0ohm / bottom coil at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALPolycarbonate + Chromed Brass

$4.86 Authentic ONIYO VapeTank 1.0 Bottom Coil Clearomizer - 1.5ml / 2.0 ohm at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
MATERIALAluminum + Chromed Brass + Glass

I'm well aware of the discussions on chromed brass. Sub and I have discussed it here in fact:
Metal toxicity/poisoning/lead in vaping gear | Welcome to Thailand Vapers. For all your Vaping needs in Thailand
Atty: AQUA | Welcome to Thailand Vapers. For all your Vaping needs in Thailand

As I said, I'm well aware of carbon steel screws being shipped with FastTech atomizers. The surface rust is plain to see on several of those photos, and being that they were taken within days of receiving the atomizers, surface rust due to contamination from machining and poor cleaning makes perfect sense.

 

I didn't consider the iclear 16d atomizer so I stand corrected...none of the other iclears I own are chromed brass. the other tanks I have never used and will never use knowing they use brass, I should be surprised that they are using brass but I'm not.

When it comes down to it China will do whatever it takes to cheap out on any product they produce and they don't care how they do it. We all have Chinese made gear to some extent and it's up to us how much responsibility we are willing to take on them.

Some make great clones and some make junk and a lot of junk can be found on fastech. Go to the forums and read the threads associated with the pics I posted and you'll see it's not about negligent cleaning. In fact the tobeco clone pictured above was cleaned the day it was received in vodka....and it's a mess less than 24 hours later.

surface rust due to contamination from machining and poor cleaning does not make perfect sense at all...

 

I still don't understand why people think cleaning with vodka is some great idea. It isn't some magical cleaner. Vodka comes from potatoes or grains, potatoes and grains contain iron, vodka contains iron.
Iron in alcohol per 100g

More importantly, these mods are machined by CNC using high carbon steel bits and machine oil. Machine oil traps the swarf from the carbon steel bits. Vodka dissolves the machine oil, iron solute oxidizes on the surface. I boil mine in tap water with a bit of vinegar, then scrub with dish soap and baby bottle brushes. Wipe dry and then let air dry fully. I don't get this problem, and I've had plenty of shit from FastTech and Tobeco.